Transcriber's note: A three-page list of Exhibit numbers has been omitted from this eBook.

Cover created by Transcriber and placed in the Public Domain.

INVESTIGATION OF
THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

HEARINGS
Before the President's Commission
on the Assassination
of President Kennedy

Pursuant To Executive Order 11130, an Executive order creating a Commission to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination and S.J. Res. 137, 88th Congress, a concurrent resolution conferring upon the Commission the power to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, receive evidence, and issue subpenas

Volume
I

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON, D.C.

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, WASHINGTON: 1964

For sale in complete sets by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office
Washington, D.C., 20402

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman

• Senator Richard B. Russell
• Senator John Sherman Cooper
• Representative Hale Boggs
• Representative Gerald R. Ford
• Mr. Allen W. Dulles
• Mr. John J. McCloy
• J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel
• Assistant Counsel
• Francis W. H. Adams
• Joseph A. Ball
• David W. Belin
• William T. Coleman, Jr.
• Melvin Aron Eisenberg
• Burt W. Griffin
• Leon D. Hubert, Jr.
• Albert E. Jenner, Jr.
• Wesley J. Liebeler
• Norman Redlich
• W. David Slawson
• Arlen Specter
• Samuel A. Stern
• Howard P. Willens[A]
• Staff Members
• Phillip Barson
• Edward A. Conroy
• John Hart Ely
• Alfred Goldberg
• Murray J. Laulicht
• Arthur Marmor
• Richard M. Mosk
• John J. O'Brien
• Stuart Pollak
• Alfredda Scobey
• Charles N. Shaffer, Jr.

Biographical information on the Commissioners and the staff can be found in the Commission's Report.

[A] Mr. Willens also acted as liaison between the Commission and the Department of Justice.

[Foreword]

On November 29, 1963, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed Executive Order No. 11130, creating a Commission "to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination." By the same Executive order, the President appointed seven Commissioners: Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States; Richard B. Russell, Democratic Senator from Georgia; John Sherman Cooper, Republican Senator from Kentucky; Hale Boggs, Democratic Congressman from Louisiana and House Majority Whip; Gerald R. Ford, Republican Congressman from Michigan; Allen W. Dulles, former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency; and John J. McCloy, former High Commissioner of Germany. The President designated Chief Justice Warren as the Commission's Chairman. The findings of the Commission, based on an examination of all the facts, are set forth in the separate volume entitled "Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy."

An essential part of the investigation conducted by this Commission has been the securing of sworn testimony from witnesses possessing information relevant to the inquiry. This testimony has been taken under the authority of Senate Joint Resolution 137 (88th Cong., 1st sess.), enacted by Congress on December 13, 1963, which conferred upon the Commission the power to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, receive evidence, and issue subpenas. Under the procedures adopted by the Commission, some witnesses have appeared before members of the Commission, others have been questioned under oath on depositions by members of the staff, and others have provided affidavits to the Commission. Beginning with its first witness on February 3, 1964, the Commission under these procedures took the testimony of approximately 550 witnesses and received more than 3,100 exhibits into evidence.

The testimony and exhibits obtained by the Commission are printed in this and the succeeding volumes, organized in the following order:

(1) Testimony before members of the Commission, in the order in which it was taken.

(2) Testimony by sworn deposition or affidavit, grouped into four general subject categories; the medical attention given to the President and the Governor, identification of the assassin of President Kennedy, the background of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald by Jack L. Ruby on November 24, 1963.

(3) Exhibits introduced in connection with the testimony before the Commission in numerical order.

(4) Exhibits introduced in connection with sworn depositions and affidavits, grouped alphabetically by name of witness.

(5) Other exhibits introduced before the Commission in numerical order.

The transcripts of this testimony, prepared by qualified court reporters, were reviewed by members of the Commission staff and, in most instances, by the witness concerned. Editing of the transcript prior to printing in these volumes was confined to correction of stenographic errors and punctuation, and minor changes designed to improve the clarity and accuracy of the testimony. In the few cases indicated, brief deletions have been made of material which might be considered in poor taste and is clearly irrelevant to any facet of the Commission's investigation. All the original transcripts prepared by the court reporters, of course, have been preserved and will be available for inspection under the same rules and regulations which will apply to all records of this Commission.

Each volume contains a brief preface discussing the contents of the volume. In addition, each volume of testimony contains a table of contents with the names of the witnesses whose testimony appears in the volume, and the numbers of the exhibits introduced in connection with that testimony. Each volume of exhibits contains a table of contents with short descriptions of the exhibits reproduced in the volume. Volume XV contains a name index setting forth all references to persons (other than Lee Harvey Oswald) appearing in the Hearings volumes and an index setting forth all references to Commission exhibits and Deposition exhibits in these volumes.

[Preface]

The testimony of the following witnesses is contained in volume I: Mrs. Marina Oswald, the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald; Mrs. Marguerite Oswald, Oswald's mother; Robert Edward Lee Oswald, Oswald's brother; and James Herbert Martin, who acted for a brief period as Mrs. Marina Oswald's business manager.

[Contents]

COMMISSION EXHIBITS INTRODUCED

Hearings Before the President's Commission
on the
Assassination of President Kennedy

[Monday, February 3, 1964]
TESTIMONY OF MRS. LEE HARVEY OSWALD

The President's Commission met at 10:35 a.m. on February 3, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.

Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and Allen W. Dulles, members.

Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; John M. Thorne, attorney for Mrs. Lee Harvey Oswald; William D. Krimer and Leon I. Gopadze, interpreters.

The Chairman. Well, Mrs. Oswald, did you have a good trip here?

The Commission will come to order, and at this time, I will make a short statement for the purpose of the meeting. A copy of this statement has been given to counsel for Mrs. Oswald, but for the record, I should like to read it.

On November 29, 1963, President Lyndon B. Johnson issued Executive Order No. 11130 appointing a Commission "to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy, and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination."

On December 13, 1963, Congress adopted Joint Resolution S.J. 137 which authorizes the Commission, or any member of the Commission or any agent or agency designated by the Commission for such purpose to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, and receive evidence.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, excuse me, the interpreter——

The Chairman. I understood they have a copy and if they want to at the end he may do that.

On January 21, 1964, the Commission adopted a resolution authorizing each member of the Commission and its General Counsel, J. Lee Rankin, to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, and receive evidence concerning any matter under investigation by the Commission.

The purpose of this hearing is to take the testimony of Mrs. Marina Oswald, the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald who, prior to his death, was charged with the assassination of President Kennedy. Since the Commission is inquiring fully into the background of Lee Harvey Oswald and those associated with him, it is the intention of the Commission to ask Mrs. Marina Oswald questions concerning Lee Harvey Oswald and any and all matters relating to the assassination. The Commission also intends to ask Mrs. Marina Oswald questions relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mrs. Marina Oswald has been furnished with a copy of this statement and a copy of the rules adopted by the Commission for the taking of testimony or the production of evidence. Mrs. Marina Oswald has also been furnished with a copy of Executive Order No. 11130 and Congressional Resolution S.J. Res. 137 which set forth the general scope of the Commission's inquiry and its authority for the examining witnesses and the receiving of evidence.

The Chairman. Mrs. Oswald, do you have an attorney, a lawyer?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

The Chairman. And your lawyer is Mr. Thorne?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

The Chairman. He is the only lawyer you wish to represent you here?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

The Chairman. And may I ask you, Mr. Thorne, if you have received a copy of this?

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, that is the copy he received there.

Mr. Thorne. I have read a copy of it, Mr. Chief Justice, yes, sir.

The Chairman. Are there any questions about it?

Mr. Thorne. There are no questions.

The Chairman. Very well.

Very well, we will proceed to swear Mrs. Oswald as a witness.

Will you please rise, Mrs. Oswald.

(The Chairman administered the oath to the witness, Mrs. Oswald, through the interpreter.)

The Chairman. Mr. Reporter, will you rise, please, and be sworn.

(The Chairman administered the oath to the interpreter and the stenotype reporter, following which all questions propounded to the witness and her answers thereto, were duly translated through the interpreter.)

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Thorne and Mrs. Oswald, I want to say to you that we want to see that Mrs. Oswald's rights are protected in every manner and you are entitled to converse with her at any time that you desire. You are entitled to give her any advice that you want, either openly or in private; if you feel that her rights are not being protected you are entitled to object to the Commission and have a ruling upon it, and at the conclusion of her testimony if you have any questions that you would like to ask her in verification of what she has said you may feel free to ask them.

After her testimony has been completed, a copy will be furnished to you so that if there are any errors, corrections or omissions you may call it to our attention, is that satisfactory to you?

Mr. Thorne. Very satisfactory, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. I might say also to her we propose to ask her questions for about 1 hour, and then take a short recess for her refreshment, and then we will convene again until about 12:30. At 12:30 we will recess until 2 o'clock, and then we may take her to her hotel where she can see her baby and have a little rest, and we will return at 2 o'clock, and we will take evidence until about 4:30. If at any time otherwise you should feel tired or feel that you need a rest, you may feel free to say so and we will take care of it.

Mrs. Oswald. Thank you.

The Chairman. The questions will be asked of you by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, who is the general counsel of the Commission.

I think now we are ready to proceed, are we not, Mr. Rankin?

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, you be at your ease, and the interpreter will tell you what I ask and you take your time about your answers.

Will you state your name, please?

Mrs. Oswald. Marina, my name is Marina Nikolaevna Oswald. My maiden name was Prussakova.

Mr. Rankin. Where do you live, Mrs. Oswald?

Mrs. Oswald. At the present time I live in Dallas.

Mr. Rankin. And where in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. Mr. Thorne knows my address.

Mr. Thorne. 11125 Ferrar Street, Dallas, Dallas County, Tex.

Mr. Rankin. Do you live with friends there?

Mrs. Oswald. I live with Mr. Jim Martin and his family.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, do you have a family?

Mrs. Oswald. I have two children, two girls, June will be 2 years old in February, and Rachel is 3 months old.

Mr. Rankin. Are you the widow of the late Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, did you write in Russian a story of your experiences in the United States?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I have. I think that you are familiar with it.

Mr. Rankin. You furnished it to the Commission, did you not, or a copy of it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Will you describe for the Commission how you prepared this document in Russian that you furnished to us?

Mrs. Oswald. I wrote this document not specifically for this Commission, but merely for myself. Perhaps there are, therefore, not enough facts for your purpose in that document. This is the story of my life from the time I met him in Minsk up to the very last days.

Mr. Rankin. And by "him" who did you mean?

Mrs. Oswald. Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have any assistance in preparing this document in Russian?

Mrs. Oswald. No, no one.

Mr. Rankin. Are all the statements in that document true insofar as you know?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Since your husband's death and even back to the time of the assassination of President Kennedy, you have had a number of interviews with people from the Secret Service and the FBI, have you not?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I did.

Mr. Rankin. We have a record of more than 46 such interviews, and I assume you cannot remember the exact number or all that was said in those interviews, is that true?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know how many there were.

Mr. Rankin. As far as you can recall now, do you know of anything that is not true in those interviews that you would like to correct or add to?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I would like to correct some things because not everything was true.

Mr. Rankin. Will you tell us——

Mrs. Oswald. It is not just that it wasn't true, but not quite exact.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall some of the information that you gave in those interviews that was incorrect that you would like to correct now? Will you tell us that?

Mrs. Oswald. At the present time, I can't remember any specific instance, but perhaps in the course of your questioning if it comes up I will say so.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the date that you arrived in the United States with your husband, Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mrs. Oswald. On the 13th of June, 1962—I am not quite certain as to the year—'61 or '62, I think '62.

Mr. Rankin. How did you come to this country?

Mrs. Oswald. From Moscow via Poland, Germany, and Holland we came to Amsterdam by train. And from Amsterdam to New York by ship, and New York to Dallas by air.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the name of the ship on which you came?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was the SS Rotterdam but I am not sure.

Mr. Rankin. What time of the day did you arrive in New York?

Mrs. Oswald. It was—about noon or 1 p.m., thereabouts. It is hard to remember the exact time.

Mr. Rankin. How long did you stay in New York at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. We stayed that evening and the next 24 hours in a hotel in New York, and then we left the following day by air.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the name of the hotel where you stayed?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know the name of the hotel but it is in the Times Square area, not far from the publishing offices of the New York Times.

Mr. Rankin. What did you do during your stay in New York?

Mrs. Oswald. That evening we just walked around the city to take a look at it. In the morning I remained in the hotel while Lee left in order to arrange for tickets, and so forth.

Mr. Rankin. Did you visit anyone or have visitors at your hotel during that period?

Mrs. Oswald. We didn't have any visitors but I remember that with Lee we visited some kind of an office, on official business, perhaps it had something to do with immigration or with the tickets. Lee spoke to them in English and I didn't understand it.

Mr. Rankin. Would that be a Travelers' Aid Bureau or Red Cross?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether or not you or your husband received any financial assistance for the trip to Texas at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know exactly where Lee got the money, but he said that his brother Robert had given him the money. But the money for the trip from the Soviet Union to New York was given to us by the American Embassy in Moscow.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall what time of the day you left on the flight to Texas?

Mrs. Oswald. I think that by about 5 p.m. we were already in Texas.

Mr. Rankin. Did you go to Dallas or Fort Worth at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. In Dallas we were met by the brother, Robert, he lived in Fort Worth, and he took us from Dallas to Fort Worth and we stopped at the house.

Mr. Rankin. Who else stayed at Robert's house at that time besides your family?

Mrs. Oswald. His family and no one else.

Mr. Rankin. What did his family consist of at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. He and his wife and two children, a boy and a girl.

Mr. Rankin. How long did you stay at Robert's?

Mrs. Oswald. About 1 to 1½ months—perhaps longer, but no longer than 2 months.

Mr. Rankin. Were your relations and your husband's with Robert pleasant at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, they were very good. His brother's relationship to us was very good.

Mr. Rankin. Would you briefly describe what you did during that time when you were at Robert's?

Mrs. Oswald. The first time we got there we were, of course, resting for about a week, and I was busy, of course, with my little girl who was then very little. And in my free time, of course, I helped in the household.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband do anything around the house or did he seek work right away?

Mrs. Oswald. For about a week he was merely talking and took a trip to the library. That is it.

Mr. Rankin. Then did he seek work in Fort Worth?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. And when did he find his first job there?

Mrs. Oswald. While we were with Robert. It seems it was at the end of the second month that Lee found work. But at this time I don't remember the date exactly but his mother who lived in Fort Worth at that time rented a room and she proposed that we spend some time with her, that we live with her for some time.

Mr. Rankin. Did you discuss with your husband this proposal of your mother-in-law to have you live with her?

Mrs. Oswald. Well, she made the proposal to my husband, not to me. Of course, I found out about it.

Mr. Rankin. Did you and he have any discussion about it after you found out about it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, of course.

Mr. Rankin. You recall that discussion?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I only remember the fact.

Mr. Rankin. Did he find work after you left Robert's then?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. You did move to be with your mother-in-law, lived with her for a time?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, about 3 weeks. And then after 3 weeks Lee did not want to live with her any more and he rented an apartment.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know the reason why he did not want to live there any more?

Mrs. Oswald. It seemed peculiar to me and didn't want to believe it but he did not love his mother, she was not quite a normal woman. Now, I know this for sure.

Mr. Rankin. Did he tell you that at the time?

Mrs. Oswald. He talked about it but since he spoke in English to his mother, I didn't understand it. There were quite a few scenes when he would return from work he didn't want to talk to her. Perhaps she thought I was the reason for the fact that Lee did not want to talk to her. And, of course, for a mother this is painful and I told him that he should be more attentive to his mother but he did not change. I think that one of the reasons for this was that she talked a great deal about how much she had done to enable Lee to return from Russia, and Lee felt that he had done most of—the greatest effort in that respect and didn't want to discuss it.

Mr. Rankin. Where did he find work at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Of course, if I had been told now I would have remembered it because I have learned some English but at that time I didn't know, but Lee told me that it wasn't far from Mercedes Street where we lived, and it was really common labor connected with some kind of metal work, something for buildings.

Mr. Rankin. Did he ever say whether he enjoyed that work?

Mrs. Oswald. He didn't like it.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall how long he stayed at that job?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know but it seemed to me that he worked there for about 3 or 4 months. Perhaps longer. Dates are one of my problems.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether he left that job voluntarily or was discharged?

Mrs. Oswald. He told me that he had been discharged but I don't know why.

Mr. Rankin. When you left the mother-in-law's house where did you go?

Mrs. Oswald. I have already said that we moved to Mercedes Street.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have an apartment there?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, we rented an apartment in a duplex.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall the address on Mercedes Street?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't remember the exact number.

Mr. Rankin. Will you describe the apartment, how many rooms it had?

Mrs. Oswald. Living room, kitchen, bath, and one bedroom.

Mr. Rankin. This was the first time since you had come to this country then that you had an opportunity to have a home of your own, is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. No, we had our own home in Russia.

Mr. Rankin. Did your husband work a full day at that time on this job?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sometimes he even worked on Saturdays.

Mr. Rankin. What did you do when he came home, did he help you with housework?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He frequently went to a library. He read a great deal.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall any of the books that he read at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I only know that they were books more of a historical nature rather than fiction or literature.

Mr. Rankin. In your story in Russian you relate the fact that he read a great deal of the time. Could you describe to the Commission just how that was? Did he go off by himself to read or how did he handle that?

Mrs. Oswald. He would bring a book from a library, sit in the living room and read. I was busy with housework, and that is the way it happened.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have differences between you about the time that he spent reading rather than devoting it to you or the other members of the family?

Mrs. Oswald. No. We did have quarrels about his relationship to his mother, the fact that he didn't want to change his relationship to his mother. I know that he read so much that when we lived in New Orleans he used to read sometimes all night long and in order not to disturb me he would be sitting in the bathroom for several hours reading.

Mr. Rankin. Did your quarrels start at that time when you were at Mercedes Street the first time.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, we didn't have many quarrels.

Mr. Rankin. When you were at Mercedes Street did you have Robert visit you or did you visit him?

Mrs. Oswald. No, he came to us sometimes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall seeing any guns at Mercedes Street while you were there?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did your mother-in-law come to see you at Mercedes Street?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Will you describe the relationship between your husband and your mother-in-law while he was at Mercedes Street?

Mrs. Oswald. She did not want us to move away to Mercedes Street, and Lee did not want to remain with her and did not even want her to visit us after that. Lee did not want her to know the address to which we were moving and Robert helped us in the move. I felt very sorry for her. Sometime after that she visited us while Lee was at work and I was quite surprised wondering about how she found out our address. And then we had a quarrel because he said to me, "Why did you open the door for her, I don't want her to come here any more."

Mr. Rankin. During this period did your husband spend much time with the baby, June?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. He loved children very much.

Mr. Rankin. Did you obtain a television set at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Lee wanted to buy a television set on credit. He then returned it. Should I speak a little louder?

Mr. Rankin. Did Robert help any with the money or just in guaranteeing the payments?

Mrs. Oswald. I think that he only guaranteed the payments.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall how much the television set cost?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. So far as you know it was paid for out of your husband's income?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Were you still at Mercedes Street when he lost his job with the welding company?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Did he try to find another job in Fort Worth then?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know how much he looked for jobs before he found one then?

Mrs. Oswald. He looked for work for some time but he could not find it and then some Russian friends of ours helped him find some work in Dallas.

Mr. Rankin. How long was he out of work?

Mrs. Oswald. It seems to me it was about 2 weeks; hard to remember, perhaps that long.

Mr. Rankin. Where did he find work in Dallas, do you remember the name?

Mrs. Oswald. I know it was some kind of a printing company which prepares photographs for newspapers.

Mr. Rankin. Was he working with the photographic department of that company?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Was he an apprentice in that work trying to learn it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, at first he was an apprentice and later he worked.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know what his income was when he was working for the welding company?

Mrs. Oswald. I think it was about $200 a month, I don't know. I know it was a dollar and a quarter an hour.

Mr. Rankin. Did he work much overtime at that time?

Mrs. Oswald. Not too much but sometimes he did work Saturdays.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall how much he received as pay at the printing company?

Mrs. Oswald. A dollar forty an hour.

Mr. Rankin. How many hours did he work a week, do you recall?

Mrs. Oswald. He usually worked until 5 p.m. But sometimes he worked later, and on Saturdays, too.

Mr. Rankin. The ordinary work week at that time was the 5-day week then, and the Saturdays would be an overtime period?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Who were the Russian friends who helped your husband find this job in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. George Bouhe.

Mr. Rankin. Did this friend and other Russian friends visit you at Mercedes Street?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. When we lived at Fort Worth we became acquainted with Peter Gregory, he is a Russian, he lives in Fort Worth and through him we became acquainted with others.

Mr. Rankin. Will you tell us insofar as you recall, the friends that you knew in Fort Worth?

Mrs. Oswald. Our first acquaintance was Gregory. Through him I met Gali Clark, Mrs. Elena Hall. That is all in Fort Worth. And then we met George Bouhe in Dallas, and Anna Meller, and Anna Ray and Katya Ford.

Mr. Rankin. By your answer do you mean that some of those people you met in Dallas and some in Fort Worth?

Mrs. Oswald. George De Mohrenschildt—this was both in Fort Worth and Dallas, the names of my recital but they were well acquainted with each other, even though some lived in Dallas and some lived in Fort Worth.

Mr. Rankin. Will you please sort them out for us and tell us those you met in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. You mean by the question, who out of these Russians lives in Dallas?

Mr. Rankin. Or which ones you met in Dallas as distinguished from those you had already met in Fort Worth?

Mrs. Oswald. In Fort Worth I met the people from Dallas. There was George Bouhe, George De Mohrenschildt—no. Anna Meller and George Bouhe only, they were from Dallas, but I met them in Fort Worth.

Mr. Rankin. Did these friends visit you at your home in Fort Worth?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sometimes they came to visit us when they were in Dallas, they came to us. Sometimes they made a special trip to come and see us.

Mr. Rankin. Did you ever visit them in their homes?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, when we lived in Fort Worth we went to Dallas several times to visit them.

Mr. Rankin. When you made these visits did you go to spend an evening or a considerable part of the time or were they short visits? Can you describe that?

Mrs. Oswald. We used to come early in the morning and leave at night. We would spend the entire day with them. We went there by bus.

Mr. Rankin. Did you have an automobile of your own at any time during this period?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. Did any of these people have meals in your home when they visited you?

Mrs. Oswald. No. They usually brought—they usually came for short visits and they brought their own favorite vegetables such as cucumbers, George liked cucumbers.

Mr. Rankin. When you moved to Dallas, where did you live the first time?

Mrs. Oswald. I did not move to Dallas together with Lee. Lee went to Dallas when he found the job, and I remained in Fort Worth and lived with Elena Hall.

Mr. Rankin. For how long a period did you live with Mrs. Hall?

Mrs. Oswald. I think that it was about a month and a half.

Mr. Rankin. During that month and a half what did your husband do?

Mrs. Oswald. He had a job. He was working. He would call me up over the telephone but how he spent his time, I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know during that month and a half where he lived?

Mrs. Oswald. At first, I know that he rented a room in the YMCA but very shortly thereafter he rented an apartment. But where I don't know.

Mr. Rankin. During that month and a half did he come and see you and the baby?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, two or three times he came to see us because he had no car. It was not very easy.

Mr. Rankin. Were these trips to see you on the weekends?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When he came did he also stay at the Hall's?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. When you were staying at the Hall's did you pay them for your room and your meals?

Mrs. Oswald. No. No, she was very friendly toward us and she tried to help us.

Mr. Rankin. What did you and your husband do when he came to see you? Did he spend his time with you there in the home or did you go some place?

Mrs. Oswald. No, we didn't go anywhere.

Mr. Rankin. Did he do any reading there?

Mrs. Oswald. No. I remember that it was only a couple of times that he came for a weekend. Generally, he only came for a very short period of time, because he would come together with our friends, and they could not stay very long.

Mr. Rankin. When he came during that period did he discuss what he had been doing in Dallas, his work and other things?

Mrs. Oswald. He liked his work very much.

Mr. Rankin. After this month and a half did he find a place for you all to live together?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, but it wasn't a problem there to find a place, no problem there to find a place.

Mr. Rankin. Did you then move to a home in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, on Elsbeth, Elsbeth Street in Dallas.

Mr. Rankin. Do you remember the number?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. How did you move your things from Mrs. Hall's to the place on Elsbeth Street?

Mrs. Oswald. A friend who had a car helped us—I don't remember his name, Taylor, Gary Taylor.

The Chairman. Suppose we take a recess now for about 10 minutes to allow Mrs. Oswald to refresh herself.

(Short recess.)

The Chairman. The Commission may be in order.

Mr. Rankin. Did that require one or more trips to move your things from Fort Worth to Dallas when you went to Elsbeth Street?

Mrs. Oswald. One trip was enough.

Mr. Rankin. Did you observe any guns in your things when you moved?

Mrs. Oswald. No.

Mr. Rankin. What kind of place did you have at Elsbeth Street, was it rooms or an apartment?

Mrs. Oswald. An apartment.

Mr. Rankin. How many rooms in the apartment?

Mrs. Oswald. One living room, a bedroom, a kitchen, and the bathroom. It sounds very small for all of you but for us it was quite sufficient.