Transcriber’s Note: Cover created by Transcriber and placed in the Public Domain.

INVESTIGATION OF
THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

HEARINGS
Before the President’s Commission
on the Assassination
of President Kennedy

Pursuant To Executive Order 11130, an Executive order creating a Commission to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination and S.J. Res. 137, 88th Congress, a concurrent resolution conferring upon the Commission the power to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, receive evidence, and issue subpenas

Volume
XIV

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON, D.C.

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, WASHINGTON: 1964

For sale in complete sets by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Washington, D.C., 20402

PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION
ON THE
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY

Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman

• Senator Richard B. Russell
• Senator John Sherman Cooper
• Representative Hale Boggs
• Representative Gerald R. Ford
• Mr. Allen W. Dulles
• Mr. John J. McCloy
• J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel
• Assistant Counsel
• Francis W. H. Adams
• Joseph A. Ball
• David W. Belin
• William T. Coleman, Jr.
• Melvin Aron Eisenberg
• Burt W. Griffin
• Leon D. Hubert, Jr.
• Albert E. Jenner, Jr.
• Wesley J. Liebeler
• Norman Redlich
• W. David Slawson
• Arlen Specter
• Samuel A. Stern
• Howard P. Willens[A]

[A]Mr. Willens also acted as liaison between the Commission and the Department of Justice.

• Staff Members
• Phillip Barson
• Edward A. Conroy
• John Hart Ely
• Alfred Goldberg
• Murray J. Laulicht
• Arthur Marmor
• Richard M. Mosk
• John J. O’Brien
• Stuart Pollak
• Alfredda Scobey
• Charles N. Shaffer, Jr.

Biographical information on the Commissioners and the staff can be found in the Commission’s Report.

Preface

The testimony of the following witnesses is contained in volume XIV: Curtis LaVerne Crafard, Wilbyrn Waldon (Robert) Litchfield II, Robert Carl Patterson, Alice Reaves Nichols, Ralph Paul, George Senator, Nancy Perrin Rich, Breck Wall (Billy Ray Wilson), Joseph Alexander Peterson, Harry N. Olsen, and Kay Helen Olsen, all of whom were friends, acquaintances, employees, or business associates of Jack L. Ruby; Earl Ruby and Sam Ruby, two of Ruby’s brothers, and Mrs. Eva Grant, one of his sisters; Jack L. Ruby; Dr. William Robert Beavers, a psychiatrist who examined Ruby; and Bell P. Herndon, an FBI polygraph expert who administered a polygraph test to Ruby.

Contents

EXHIBITS INTRODUCED

Hearings Before the President’s Commission
on the
Assassination of President Kennedy

TESTIMONY OF CURTIS LaVERNE CRAFARD RESUMED

The testimony of Curtis LaVerne Crafard was taken at 9:15 a.m., on April 9, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C., by Messrs. Burt W. Griffin, Leon D. Hubert, Jr., and Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.

Mr. Griffin. I want to start out by stating for the record, for your purposes, also, Larry, that we are continuing this deposition under the same authority which it was commenced yesterday morning, and I know that there is no mistake on your part that the oath which you took before is still in effect.

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Griffin. What we propose to do today is to go through in some detail some of the papers which have come into our possession. The first thing I want to ask you to look at is a notebook, which is a blue cover spiral notebook entitled, “Penway Memo Notebook” and it has Commission Document No. 717, but for the record I will clarify this that this is not the same number as the numbers that we are using in the deposition. I will give it a deposition number in just a minute. I am going to mark this for identification on the front cover—I am going to mark this on the inside of the front cover at the bottom in pen, “Washington, D.C., April 9, 1964, Exhibit 5202, Deposition of C. L. Crafard,” and I am going to sign it with my signature, Burt W. Griffin.

Mr. Hubert. For the purpose of the record, count the number of pages and half pages. Perhaps it is a good idea to initial the bottom of each page with your initials.

Mr. Griffin. All right. In addition to the front cover, what I am going to do is number the pages at the bottom, and I will put my initials on each. I will make it clear that I am numbering only the separate sheets of paper. I am not numbering each side of the paper. We can refer to these pages as the numbered side and the reverse side for purposes of discussion.

Mr. Hubert. Why don’t you have the record show that pages——

Mr. Griffin. Page 10 is a blank. Page 11 is a half sheet of paper which has been torn off and there is nothing written on that page. Page 14 is approximately a third of a sheet of paper, the bottom two thirds having been torn off, and it does contain penciled writing on it. Page 15 is a full sheet. Page 16 is approximately a half sheet with penciled writing on it. Page 17 is a full sheet. There is a total of 18 pages including half sheets and third sheets of paper in the notebook, and there is a blue hard cardboard front cover and a buff or dirty brown back cover which is also hard cardboard. Do we have photostatic copies of it?

Do you want to put that in the record?

Mr. Hubert. I just wanted to get them numbered the same way. We can do that later.

(The document was marked Crafard Exhibit No. 5202 for identification.)

Mr. Griffin. I am going to hand you what I have marked as Commission Exhibit 5202, and ask you, Larry, if you recognize that.

Mr. Crafard. Yes; this is a notebook I used to keep phone numbers when I was working for Mr. Jack Ruby.

Mr. Griffin. Did you buy that notebook yourself?

Mr. Crafard. Yes; I bought this myself.

Mr. Griffin. And how soon after you went to work for Jack Ruby did you buy that?

Mr. Crafard. About a week after I went to work for him. You look real close on the front you will see my name on the front of it.

Mr. Griffin. And did you write that in there?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Can you read what you see on there?

Mr. Crafard. C. L.—Larry Crafard, Carousel Club. Its got 1312½ Commerce Street, Dallas, Tex. It’s real vague on there.

Mr. Griffin. That is an impression that simply comes through as actually scratches on there and doesn’t come through in any color?

Mr. Crafard. No; it doesn’t come through in any color.

Mr. Griffin. Now, when you bought this book, did Jack Ruby give you any instructions with respect to maintaining the book?

Mr. Crafard. Just use it to put phone numbers down in, addresses of people that called in wanting to talk, called in, put the phone number down so I’d know how he could get in touch with them.

Mr. Griffin. Did the notations that appear in there follow any sequence either chronological or by topic or anything of that sort?

Mr. Crafard. I don’t believe they do, no.

Mr. Griffin. Would you want to take the time to look at it and see if you recognize any sequence in the entries?

Mr. Crafard. The first portion of the book on the first page is more or less numbers which was used quite frequently.

Mr. Griffin. You are referring to page 1?

Mr. Crafard. Yes; page 1.

Mr. Griffin. Now, do you want to look over on the back of page 1; the reverse side?

Mr. Crafard. It is also numbers that were used quite frequently.

Mr. Griffin. Now, look at page 2.

Mr. Crafard. Page 2, I believe, was an address on the top of page 2. It was an address that I wrote down for Mr. Ruby.

Mr. Griffin. What about the remaining entries on there. Were they numbers that were used frequently?

Mr. Crafard. No; I don’t believe so.

Mr. Griffin. Do you want to look at the reverse side of page 2?

Mr. Crafard. There is only one number on there, on the reverse side of page 2 that we used very frequently. That was Little Lynn’s phone number.

Mr. Griffin. The front part of page 3?

Mr. Crafard. From the numbers on there, as far as I know, there was only one of them that was used very frequently. It was Mickey Ryan. On the reverse side is just more or less notations that were taken down from phone calls. Then on page 4 is just numbers that were taken down from phone calls. The first number on page 4, Norma Bennett, that was that one girl I was trying to tell you about yesterday.

Mr. Griffin. She was the waitress?

Mr. Crafard. No; she was the one I started saying about that Jack had tried to get to work as a stripper to get her to work for this friend of his, Ralph Paul.

Mr. Hubert. What you mean is that during your testimony yesterday you remembered her name as Norma but you did not remember her last name?

Mr. Crafard. I did not even remember her first name, sir.

Mr. Hubert. I thought you mentioned that her name was Norma.

Mr. Crafard. Not that I recall, sir.

Mr. Hubert. In any case, you now say that the person you were testifying about yesterday who tried to get work and who was ultimately placed at work by Ruby with Ralph Paul was Norma Bennett?

Mr. Crafard. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert. And the entry on page—what is it?

Mr. Crafard. Page 4.

Mr. Hubert. Refreshes your memory to that extent, right?

Mr. Crafard. Yes, sir. On the reverse side of page 4 is just notations. No. 5 is just notations, with some things that Jack had to do on that day. Then the reverse side of 5 is just notations, phone calls. No. 6 is some draws that I took on different days. The reverse side of No. 6 is just notations, mostly for phone calls that was taken. No. 7 is just notations with the exception of the top number, the top name, Joe Roskydall, who was a friend of mine while I was previously living in Dallas.

Mr. Griffin. Larry, in the pages that you have gone through so far, have you noticed any handwriting in that book that is not your handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. As you go through this, if you do recognize any handwriting that is not yours, would you point that out to us?

Mr. Crafard. Yes, sir. On the reverse side of page 7 there is just notations from phone calls. The bottom half of that page written in ink isn’t my handwriting.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recognize whose handwriting that is?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.

Mr. Griffin. Are you able to recognize Jack Ruby’s handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir; I am not.

Mr. Griffin. Are you able to recognize Andy Armstrong’s handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. I believe I would recognize Andy’s writing.

Mr. Griffin. Does that appear to be Andy Armstrong’s handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Do you want to look at page 8?

Mr. Crafard. That is my writing on page 8. That is just phone numbers, addresses that was taken down that Jack Ruby give me to write down, addresses that he wanted to keep. On the reverse side of that is a couple of phone numbers. I don’t recall what they were for. Page 9 I don’t have any idea what that was for. I don’t recall it all.

Mr. Griffin. Is that your handwriting on page 9?

Mr. Crafard. It looks like my handwriting, yes. The reverse side of page 9 is blank. Page 10 is blank. A portion of a page, page 11, is blank.

Mr. Griffin. Page 11, incidentally, is a half sheet of paper. Do you recall in using this notebook whether you had occasion to rip out portions of the notebook?

Mr. Crafard. A couple of times I took a piece of paper and put a phone number on it for Jack. Page 12 is just a few notations for some things that I had to buy for myself. The reverse side of page 11 is——

Mr. Griffin. That is the reverse side of page 12?

Mr. Crafard. Page 12, yes; is just notations. Page 13 is a couple of notations.

Mr. Griffin. Page 13 is in your handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. Yes. This number in East Waco may not be mine. I don’t know.

Mr. Griffin. You are referring to what appears to be 3902——

Mr. Crafard. East Waco.

Mr. Griffin. East Waco, and that is written in pen?

Mr. Crafard. Yes; I don’t recall I ever wrote it down, and it doesn’t look like my handwriting.

Mr. Hubert. Page 10?

Mr. Griffin. No; page 13.

Mr. Crafard. Page 13. The reverse side of that page is my handwriting. It is just notations. Page 14 is some notations I took while I was trying to make arrangement to ship a dog to California. It is about a third of a page.

Mr. Griffin. Can you read page 14 for us? It is a little difficult to read.

Mr. Crafard. I’m not even sure what it is, myself. I can make out the name Frank Fisher underneath, but that is all. I believe the rest of it is something, Boeing Insurance it looks like.

Mr. Hubert. How is it spelled?

Mr. Crafard. B-o-e-i-n-g. The reverse side of page 14 is just notations. 15 is just notations. I don’t remember the bottom portion of that number wrote in dark blue ink.

Mr. Griffin. It begins with “WE-7-3037”?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. What page?

Mr. Crafard. Page 15.

Mr. Griffin. Then there are three more lines which appear to read on one line, “063” on the next line “Herman” printed, and the letters “Flore” and then those are crossed out and written above it in longhand is the word “flowers”. And then directly under “Herman Flowers” is in longhand “from Wax-a-hatchy.” Do I understand that you do not recognize that writing, for example, “from Wax-a-hatchy”, as being in your handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. “Wax-a-hatchy”, I believe, is my handwriting. The rest of it I don’t recognize. On the reverse side of that is figuring. That is definitely not mine. Page 16 is just notations. That is about 2/3 of a page. The reverse side of that page is just notations, people calling in wanting reservations. Page 17 is just notations in my handwriting. The reverse side of page 17 is just notations. Page 18 is just notations in my handwriting. The reverse side of that is just notations.

Mr. Griffin. With the exception of the pages in that book which you have indicated are blank, every page in the book is filled, which means that there are only a total of 18 pages in the book altogether. Do you recall from looking at this notebook whether when you bought the notebook it had more pages in it than appear to be there now?

Mr. Crafard. I believe it did have. I’m not positive.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall ripping out any of the pages?

Mr. Crafard. I don’t recall ripping out any full pages; no, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall whether in making the entries in that book you used pages in a consecutive fashion or whether you made entries on pages at random so that there would be many blank pages interspersed among pages that had writing on them?

Mr. Crafard. Most of it, I believe, was—from the first portion of the book, from the front to the back was pretty well in rotation. If I turn it over to the back and maybe flip over four or five pages and make a notation in it, as I recall.

Mr. Griffin. Do you mean by that that you would leave some blank pages at the back?

Mr. Crafard. As I recall, there was blank pages left spaced in the back.

Mr. Griffin. So your testimony would be that the book as you see it now is not in the same condition as it was in when you left Dallas on the 23d of November?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Griffin. Is there anything else about that book which appears to be different from the way that you remember it when you left Dallas on the 23d?

Mr. Crafard. No; not that I can notice.

Mr. Griffin. Do you have any general questions, Mr. Hubert, that you want to ask about the book?

Mr. Hubert. Yes; I would like to. What was the purpose of keeping that book?

Mr. Crafard. I used it, Jack would get calls he wanted to keep the number of and I’d write the number down in this book and later transfer to another book, and then I would use it if a phone call come in somebody wanting to talk to Jack I’d put the number down where he could get in touch with them at so I could give him the number to call.

Mr. Hubert. I think you testified that the first three or four pages were made when you first bought the book?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. And were in fact numbers that you knew or he told you would be frequently called, is that right?

Mr. Crafard. Yes; the first two pages on both sides.

Mr. Hubert. He gave you those numbers?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. Now, you were to keep the book in order to advise him currently, that is to say, daily, of the calls and messages and so forth that came in?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Hubert. I suggest to you, therefore, that that book, in order to serve the purpose that you stated, it was being kept for, would have been used by making the entries in sequence as they came up and not skipping around?

Mr. Crafard. I used the front of the book for numbers that Jack give me that he wanted to keep. Then I’d use the back of the book for people that called in for reservations at the club or he’d give me some numbers he wanted to use right then, but he wouldn’t want to keep them, or something of this sort.

Mr. Hubert. My point is that when you first started to use the book did you just put the first series of entries other than those numbers that were frequently called just at random on any page, or would you put it in the next available page?

Mr. Crafard. It would usually be on the next page. Sometimes I would skip maybe two or three pages.

Mr. Hubert. Did you have any reason for doing that?

Mr. Crafard. I’d want to have the pages there, a couple of blank pages there, like this one here which should have been torn out. I don’t know why I didn’t.

Mr. Hubert. What page are you referring to?

Mr. Crafard. The reverse side of page 12. It is a list of some sandwiches I went out and got for a couple of the girls that worked at the club.

Mr. Hubert. Are you suggesting to us that the book served several functions and that there were different portions of it for each function?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Hubert. I think you said that the back of each page was used for the function of putting down reservations.

Mr. Crafard. I might use two or three pages right in a row for that, or I might take a page right out of the middle of the book.

Mr. Hubert. And leave it in the book?

Mr. Crafard. Usually I tore the page out. The pages I transferred over and when I got the book full I’d just throw the book away and get another book.

Mr. Hubert. Which book are you talking of?

Mr. Crafard. These notebooks like this.

Mr. Hubert. You had more than one?

Mr. Crafard. I believe I had one other notebook similar to this, the same type of a notebook as this.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall what you did with that notebook?

Mr. Crafard. No, I don’t.

Mr. Hubert. I thought you testified that this was the one that you started off with.

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. There was another one that you bought later?

Mr. Crafard. Yes. I used it quite frequently. I’d tear the pages out and write down the reservations a lot, most of the time. I had this book and when I started putting reservations down I thought I’d get another book and use it for that and then I’d have this one just for the phone numbers and I wouldn’t mess up the reservations.

Mr. Hubert. Then the other book, when it was used up, as it were, was thrown away?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Hubert. Now, you have been through it. What we want to find out is if there is any way that one can tell by looking at the book about the date when any particular entry was made.

Mr. Crafard. No, sir.

Mr. Hubert. Are you saying that you skipped around arbitrarily?

Mr. Crafard. It might be 2 or 3 days before I’d put anything down in this book in a row, maybe. Personally, I couldn’t say anything about the dates when I made the entries.

Mr. Hubert. Suppose that you hadn’t used the book for a couple of days and then you found occasion to make an entry. Would you make that entry right following the last one you had made or would you make it at some other page?

Mr. Crafard. Several times I would flip over in the book to the next empty page, put down an entry, and later I’d take the first few pages that I had left out, left where I could and there would be a number Jack would want to keep and I’d write the number down. These numbers on the first couple of pages here, I think the first page is all numbers that I got the first day and then the others is numbers I added to it later.

Mr. Hubert. Then are we to understand that there is no possibility of determining the sequence of events recorded in that book by referring to the order in which they appear in the book?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Hubert. In other words, an entry on one of the later pages might have been made prior to the one on the earlier page?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Griffin. When you testified, Larry, that you would sometimes flip the book over and make entries on the back of the pages, and as you have just done in front of us, you have turned the book over on its face to the back of the book. Do I understand your testimony to mean, then, that you worked, for some of your notations you worked backward?

Mr. Crafard. That is right.

Mr. Griffin. From the back of the book?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. But am I correct in understanding that the pages in the front of the book which have writing on the back side of the numbered page were not entries that were made in this fashion that we have just been describing but followed in the ordinary sequence that you would have made in working from the front of the book?

Mr. Crafard. That is right. The first two pages in the book, as I stated before, are numbers that he wanted to keep. I would fill the front of the page and then turn the page over and fill the reverse side of that same page.

Mr. Griffin. Now, as you go through there, would you leaf through those pages from one on, and tell us what the first page is that you recognize that wasn’t made by working from the front of the book and filling in sequence the back of the page after you had filled the front?

Mr. Crafard. I believe it would be page No. 4.

Mr. Griffin. And the back of page 4 has entries on it which might have been made because you were working from the back of the book forward?

Mr. Crafard. Yes, I believe so. I believe that is where I made those.

Mr. Griffin. You also explained to Mr. Hubert that you would transfer some of the entries from that book into another notebook.

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Would you describe the other notebook for us?

Mr. Crafard. It was a Penway notebook, but it was a larger notebook. It was a memo pad, I believe is what it was. Was wide enough that it had a dividing line down the middle of the page, a red dividing line down the middle of the page.

Mr. Griffin. Who purchased that notebook?

Mr. Crafard. I did.

Mr. Griffin. And how long after you purchased this small Exhibit 5202 did you purchase the notebook that you have just been describing?

Mr. Crafard. I believe it was about 3 or 4 days later.

Mr. Griffin. Where was that book kept physically?

Mr. Crafard. Mostly on Jack’s desk.

Mr. Griffin. Did you leave that notebook at the Carousel when you left?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Were there any entries that were made in that notebook which were entered directly into that notebook without being placed in some other notebook first?

Mr. Crafard. I believe there were a few in the last couple or few pages in the notebook.

Mr. Griffin. The entries that were in this larger Penway notebook which you have been describing, did they include all of the telephone numbers that are in this small Penway notebook which we have before us?

Mr. Crafard. No, not all of the numbers. There were numbers—the numbers that Jack wanted to keep and used quite frequently.

I believe all of the numbers on both sides of the first two pages were in that book along with some other numbers that he had given me that he wanted to keep that I wrote down there in the front.

Mr. Griffin. Were all the numbers that were placed in the large Penway notebook placed there at Jack’s instructions or did you place some of them in there on your own initiative?

Mr. Crafard. It was numbers that Jack wanted to keep and he asked me to write down, he had asked me to get another book and write them down in it so he could have them.

Mr. Griffin. Up to the time that you bought this larger Penway notebook, had Jack been maintaining a notebook?

Mr. Crafard. Very seldom that he used a notebook. He had a book full of numbers he very seldom used it.

Mr. Griffin. Where did he keep that book of phone numbers?

Mr. Crafard. I believe he had one on his desk.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall what kind of a book that was?

Mr. Crafard. I believe it was a regular phone number and address book.

Mr. Griffin. Do you think you would recognize that book if it were shown to you again?

Mr. Crafard. I believe so; yes.

Mr. Griffin. Larry, do you recall at this point if there were other entries in this small Penway notebook which you have identified as 5202 which you do not see in there now?

Mr. Crafard. I couldn’t say definitely that there was; no, sir.

Mr. Griffin. I want to refer now to the inside of the front cover. At the top of the inside of the front cover there is a number which appears to be “261-TA3-8101.”

Is that the way you would read that number?

Mr. Crafard. I would read it 261-7A3-8101.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recognize that number?

Mr. Crafard. No; I don’t sir.

Mr. Griffin. Now, can you tell us what the number is underneath that? Read it for the record.

Mr. Crafard. FE 5-3366.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recognize that number?

Mr. Crafard. No.

Mr. Griffin. There is a number under that, 612. Do you have any idea what connection that has?

Mr. Crafard. No, I don’t.

Mr. Griffin. Do you see the name “Jeff,” which is written under 612?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Do you know who that might refer to?

Mr. Crafard. No; I can’t recall who it was.

Mr. Griffin. What is the next number under Jeff?

Mr. Crafard. TA 1-1782.

Mr. Griffin. That “T” is written the same as what you thought was a No. 7?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. In 261——

Mr. Crafard. Just a second. Half the time I’ve got to figure it out, myself.

Yes, that would be TA there, too.

Mr. Griffin. And that is your handwriting?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. I take it what you are indicating is that you have a tendency to make your “T’s” look like “7’s.”

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recognize this number TA 1-1782?

Mr. Crafard. No, I don’t sir.

Mr. Griffin. Now, on the top of page 1 there is some sort of a word written.

Mr. Crafard. The word “save.”

Mr. Griffin. What is the significance of that?

Mr. Crafard. That I want to save that piece of paper, that particular sheet of paper, that I don’t want to destroy it.

Mr. Griffin. I take it that the notation “Vegas Club” with its number under it is the telephone number of the Vegas Club.

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. And the next number is written “Jack’s home” and under that “Whitehall 15601.”

That is Jack Ruby’s telephone number at home?

Mr. Crafard. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Now, tell us what this next notation “Buddy” Fort Worth——

Mr. Crafard. Buddy, Fort Worth, phone No. AX 3-0118 with the words “twist board” underneath it is the fact that this Buddy was a gentleman Jack called in reference to the twist board. I believe that is one of the gentlemen had something to do with making the twist boards in Fort Worth.

Mr. Hubert. Do you remember what Buddy’s last name was?

Mr. Crafard. I’m not positive. I believe it was Buddy Heard.

Mr. Hubert. What was your understanding as to Buddy Heard’s connections to the twist boards?

Mr. Crafard. I believe that he had something to do with the production of the twist board in Fort Worth.

Mr. Hubert. What leads you to believe that?

Mr. Crafard. Because of the way it is set up here, he give me the number, he give me the twist boards. It was something to do with either the production or the selling of the twist boards.

Mr. Hubert. Now, there is a line, rather a vacant space under “twist boards.”

I would just as soon that you not make entries in the book.

After that blank line there is some writing “Fort Worth” and some other things that follow.

Would you read that into the record, and then tell us what the significance of that is?

Mr. Crafard. It would be the word “Fort Worth” phone No. “ED-51266” with a dash, and the words “give to Mike Shore only.” That would be a number where Jack Ruby could be reached and he didn’t want me to give the number to anyone but Mike Shore.

Mr. Hubert. Do you know why he didn’t want to give it to anyone but Mike Shore?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. Hubert. Was Mike Shore a person that Ruby dealt with regularly?

Mr. Crafard. I believe he talked to Mike Shore two or three times a week on the telephone.

Mr. Hubert. Did you ever have occasion to meet Mike Shore?

Mr. Crafard. I’m not sure, sir. I believe he was in the club. I’m not positive.

Mr. Hubert. Did you ever have occasion to meet Buddy Heard?

Mr. Crafard. I don’t recall, sir.

Mr. Hubert. Do you recall where Mike Shore lived?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir; I don’t.

Mr. Hubert. Let me ask you to state again what this entry in connection with Mike Shore pertained to?

Mr. Crafard. The number would be a number where Jack Ruby could be reached but he didn’t want me to give the number to anyone but Mike Shore.

Mr. Hubert. Did you ever call that number, ED-51266?

Mr. Crafard. I don’t believe so, sir.

Mr. Hubert. Was the number ED-51266 entered into this book the first day that you got the book?

Mr. Crafard. It was within the first 2 or 3 days, I’m positive of that.

Mr. Hubert. Did you ever have occasion to call Jack Ruby at that number?

Mr. Crafard. Not that I recall. I don’t remember making a call at that number.

Mr. Griffin. Did Jack say anything to you which would indicate how often he visited the premises that that telephone number was located at?

Mr. Crafard. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Do you have a specific recollection of the conversation that you had with Jack which resulted in making this entry in the book?

Mr. Crafard. I believe it was over the telephone, and he called in, and I believe I said something about Mike Shore had called wanting to talk to him, and he give me that number and told me to give it to Mike Shore only.

Mr. Griffin. Did he indicate whether he would be at that number only that day or for a short period of time, or whether he could be reached there every day, or what?

Mr. Crafard. I believe it was just a couple hours that day.

Mr. Griffin. Now, under the name “Mike Shore only” there is another line which has no writing on it, and then there is an entry “St. Charles FL 7-0520.” What is the significance of that?

Mr. Crafard. I believe the name St. Charles is the last name of a gentleman that Jack Ruby knew, but I don’t recall ever meeting the gentleman or ever calling him to talk to.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall how that entry came to be put in the book?

Mr. Crafard. No, other than the fact that Jack give me the number. I believe there is reference to that same number further on in the book.

Mr. Griffin. Perhaps when we get to it we can discuss it at that point.

Mr. Crafard. All right.

Mr. Griffin. I am going to turn over page one then.